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	<title>Comments on: Joseph Rowntree Foundation report on social cohesion promotes ethnic marginalisation of the English</title>
	<atom:link href="http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/</link>
	<description>Resisting the efforts to impose a unitary British value system and identity</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1260</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1260</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Philip. I have replied at Cornwall24 in the following terms:

sentinel has clearly not read my post very carefully. The terms &#039;long-term settled majority ethnic group&#039; and &#039;White British&#039; are not accepted as valid by myself but are used by the Joseph Rowntree Trust report that I heavily criticise in my post. I also describe how there is slippage in the report, whereby &#039;white British&#039; comes to be applied exclusively to the English, which I also take issue with, as I regard it as making out that the English - though in the clear majority in England - should effectively be regarded as if they were just one ethnic group among many, without any special claim over England&#039;s identity in cultural or ethnic terms. This would be the same as someone making out that, simply because they were in the majority in Cornwall, the Cornish have no special right of &#039;ownership&#039;, belonging or self-determination in their own country compared with people of other cultures or ethnicities.

I strongly disagree with the 2001 Census&#039;s categories and have in fact written another post (http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/is-uk-immigration-policy-designed-to-undermine-englishness/&gt;) where I propose a new set, which includes &#039;Cornish&#039; alongside English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Philip. I have replied at Cornwall24 in the following terms:</p>
<p>sentinel has clearly not read my post very carefully. The terms &#8216;long-term settled majority ethnic group&#8217; and &#8216;White British&#8217; are not accepted as valid by myself but are used by the Joseph Rowntree Trust report that I heavily criticise in my post. I also describe how there is slippage in the report, whereby &#8216;white British&#8217; comes to be applied exclusively to the English, which I also take issue with, as I regard it as making out that the English &#8211; though in the clear majority in England &#8211; should effectively be regarded as if they were just one ethnic group among many, without any special claim over England&#8217;s identity in cultural or ethnic terms. This would be the same as someone making out that, simply because they were in the majority in Cornwall, the Cornish have no special right of &#8216;ownership&#8217;, belonging or self-determination in their own country compared with people of other cultures or ethnicities.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with the 2001 Census&#8217;s categories and have in fact written another post (<a href="http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/is-uk-immigration-policy-designed-to-undermine-englishness/&#038;gt" rel="nofollow">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/is-uk-immigration-policy-designed-to-undermine-englishness/&#038;gt</a> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  where I propose a new set, which includes &#8216;Cornish&#8217; alongside English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Hosking</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1259</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Hosking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1259</guid>
		<description>Some comments you might like to address that came up on this C24 thread: http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/module-pnForum-viewtopic-topic-3857-start-60.htm

Fantasy land - usual cobbled-up Britology crap. 

There is no such legally recognised &#039;ethnic group&#039; as quote, &quot;long-term settled majority ethnic group&quot;, which the author then decribes as being &quot;i.e. the group classified in the 2001 census of England and Wales as ‘White British’&quot;.

The term &#039;White British&#039; applies to people of different backgrounds and origins, so by definition the term cannot refer to a single ethnic group. It is certainly not another word for &#039;English&#039; - which is a term that the courts have ruled does not constitute an &#039;ethnic group&#039;. 

So the terms &#039;White British&#039;, and &#039;English&#039;, do not refer to &#039;ethnic&#039; groups and the author is clearly shown up to be a &#039;White English&#039; exclusionist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some comments you might like to address that came up on this C24 thread: <a href="http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/module-pnForum-viewtopic-topic-3857-start-60.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/module-pnForum-viewtopic-topic-3857-start-60.htm</a></p>
<p>Fantasy land &#8211; usual cobbled-up Britology crap. </p>
<p>There is no such legally recognised &#8216;ethnic group&#8217; as quote, &#8220;long-term settled majority ethnic group&#8221;, which the author then decribes as being &#8220;i.e. the group classified in the 2001 census of England and Wales as ‘White British’&#8221;.</p>
<p>The term &#8216;White British&#8217; applies to people of different backgrounds and origins, so by definition the term cannot refer to a single ethnic group. It is certainly not another word for &#8216;English&#8217; &#8211; which is a term that the courts have ruled does not constitute an &#8216;ethnic group&#8217;. </p>
<p>So the terms &#8216;White British&#8217;, and &#8216;English&#8217;, do not refer to &#8216;ethnic&#8217; groups and the author is clearly shown up to be a &#8216;White English&#8217; exclusionist.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1253</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1253</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment and link, Philip. There&#039;s no particular reason why I haven&#039;t mentioned the Cornish question explicitly recently: I still think Cornwall should be allowed to be self-governing if the majority of its people wish this. I think it&#039;s because I&#039;ve come to the conclusion that the issue is likely to be resolved only when the principle of popular sovereignty is accepted - which will be the basis on which England, too, will gain self-rule. So I kind of think that the two processes - English and Cornish self-governance - are intertwined, and have sort of put the Cornish bit of the jigsaw puzzle into square brackets as a consequence. But I&#039;ll state it explicitly where appropriate next time the situation arises. Meanwhile, on popular sovereignty, you might be interested in the post in the sister site to Britology Watch: http://nationalconversationforengland.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/government%e2%80%99s-view-on-an-english-independence-referendum-it-has-none/.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment and link, Philip. There&#8217;s no particular reason why I haven&#8217;t mentioned the Cornish question explicitly recently: I still think Cornwall should be allowed to be self-governing if the majority of its people wish this. I think it&#8217;s because I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that the issue is likely to be resolved only when the principle of popular sovereignty is accepted &#8211; which will be the basis on which England, too, will gain self-rule. So I kind of think that the two processes &#8211; English and Cornish self-governance &#8211; are intertwined, and have sort of put the Cornish bit of the jigsaw puzzle into square brackets as a consequence. But I&#8217;ll state it explicitly where appropriate next time the situation arises. Meanwhile, on popular sovereignty, you might be interested in the post in the sister site to Britology Watch: <a href="http://nationalconversationforengland.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/government%e2%80%99s-view-on-an-english-independence-referendum-it-has-none/" rel="nofollow">http://nationalconversationforengland.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/government%e2%80%99s-view-on-an-english-independence-referendum-it-has-none/</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Hosking</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Hosking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1250</guid>
		<description>Interesting article David and it just goes to show what a pigs ear the government have made out of the questions of ethnicity, national identity and citizenship.
 
On a similar note you may know of the Council of Europe&#039;s framework convention for the protection of national minorities a legal instrument that is supposed to offer protection to long term indigenous minority groups in the states that have signed and ratified it. The FCPNM is of obvious interest to the Cornish.
 
The UK has signed and ratified the FCPNM but in doing so they have claimed that only minority groups recognised by race relations act case law are covered by it. This has lead to the national majority group the English along with new minority groups (not national minorities) being recognised and covered. For example a member of the Han Chinese ethnic groups landing at Newquay airport will find that his billion strong ethnic group is recognised, protected and funded in Cornwall were as the indigenous Cornish national minority is not!
 
Curiously when Cornish campaigners asked who was covered by the FCPNM they where given the race relations act case law explanation by the UK government, however those self same campaigners couldn&#039;t help but point out that the government had included other groups for FCPNM coverage that had never brought a successful case under the RRA.

You might find this long but informative letter worth a read as with other material on the CSP website: http://cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk//resources//article.php?story=20070118175652689
 
More details here also: http://duchyofcornwall.eu/duchy05.php
 
As an aside David I notice a while ago you started to make reference to the Cornish question in some of your articles but that this is no longer the case. Is their any particular reason for this or just oversight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article David and it just goes to show what a pigs ear the government have made out of the questions of ethnicity, national identity and citizenship.</p>
<p>On a similar note you may know of the Council of Europe&#8217;s framework convention for the protection of national minorities a legal instrument that is supposed to offer protection to long term indigenous minority groups in the states that have signed and ratified it. The FCPNM is of obvious interest to the Cornish.</p>
<p>The UK has signed and ratified the FCPNM but in doing so they have claimed that only minority groups recognised by race relations act case law are covered by it. This has lead to the national majority group the English along with new minority groups (not national minorities) being recognised and covered. For example a member of the Han Chinese ethnic groups landing at Newquay airport will find that his billion strong ethnic group is recognised, protected and funded in Cornwall were as the indigenous Cornish national minority is not!</p>
<p>Curiously when Cornish campaigners asked who was covered by the FCPNM they where given the race relations act case law explanation by the UK government, however those self same campaigners couldn&#8217;t help but point out that the government had included other groups for FCPNM coverage that had never brought a successful case under the RRA.</p>
<p>You might find this long but informative letter worth a read as with other material on the CSP website: <a href="http://cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk//resources//article.php?story=20070118175652689" rel="nofollow">http://cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk//resources//article.php?story=20070118175652689</a></p>
<p>More details here also: <a href="http://duchyofcornwall.eu/duchy05.php" rel="nofollow">http://duchyofcornwall.eu/duchy05.php</a></p>
<p>As an aside David I notice a while ago you started to make reference to the Cornish question in some of your articles but that this is no longer the case. Is their any particular reason for this or just oversight?</p>
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		<title>By: Tory Black Fist</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1238</link>
		<dc:creator>Tory Black Fist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1238</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the reply David. Much to think about and I need also to clarify where I&#039;m coming from. Later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the reply David. Much to think about and I need also to clarify where I&#8217;m coming from. Later.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1237</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1237</guid>
		<description>Sorry, TBF; I didn&#039;t spot your second comment till now. &#039;Disapproval&#039; is perhaps rather morally superior: &#039;dislike&#039; and &#039;strongly disagree&#039; would be more accurate. I see your position as a form of racial and cultural supremacism based on a sort of inverted racial self-hatred: an internalisation of some white people&#039;s hatred of blacks and Asians. I&#039;m not in favour of building a brave new world based on power (including black power) and the survival of the fittest. I do, however, believe in standing up for my own culture, which is English; but not in forcibly denying other people who have settled in England - including blacks such as yourself - their own cultural expression. 

Whether &#039;native&#039; English culture will survive and prosper in a situation in which the minority-ethnic populations are growing faster than the &#039;white-British&#039; population is a difficult question. I see it more as a dynamic process of cultural change, in any case, in which all the cultures of this country (by which, I mean England) will borrow from each other, as they have done since the waves of black and Asian migration in the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s, in any case. One thing I am sure about, however, is that English culture and civilisation - including its Christian heritage, which I admit has not always been as tolerant as it should be - will be more affirmed and valued, including by racial minorities, if we have a government that actually regards being English as a good thing, and sees itself as a government for and of the English people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, TBF; I didn&#8217;t spot your second comment till now. &#8216;Disapproval&#8217; is perhaps rather morally superior: &#8216;dislike&#8217; and &#8217;strongly disagree&#8217; would be more accurate. I see your position as a form of racial and cultural supremacism based on a sort of inverted racial self-hatred: an internalisation of some white people&#8217;s hatred of blacks and Asians. I&#8217;m not in favour of building a brave new world based on power (including black power) and the survival of the fittest. I do, however, believe in standing up for my own culture, which is English; but not in forcibly denying other people who have settled in England &#8211; including blacks such as yourself &#8211; their own cultural expression. </p>
<p>Whether &#8216;native&#8217; English culture will survive and prosper in a situation in which the minority-ethnic populations are growing faster than the &#8216;white-British&#8217; population is a difficult question. I see it more as a dynamic process of cultural change, in any case, in which all the cultures of this country (by which, I mean England) will borrow from each other, as they have done since the waves of black and Asian migration in the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s, in any case. One thing I am sure about, however, is that English culture and civilisation &#8211; including its Christian heritage, which I admit has not always been as tolerant as it should be &#8211; will be more affirmed and valued, including by racial minorities, if we have a government that actually regards being English as a good thing, and sees itself as a government for and of the English people.</p>
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		<title>By: Tory Black Fist</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1217</link>
		<dc:creator>Tory Black Fist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1217</guid>
		<description>Christian Englishmen have only recently started living harmoniously with non-English non-Christians. And it&#039;s not so much harmony, as silence on your part accompanying the cacophonous babble of the world&#039;s peoples as they argue over the ownership and direction of your country.

The strongest voice will out though, and will come to control the state. I know it will not be the too too tolerant English, the question then, is will it be us, or will it be Osama&#039;s buddies? Which do you prefer David?

I&#039;m curious as to the reason for your disapproval, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christian Englishmen have only recently started living harmoniously with non-English non-Christians. And it&#8217;s not so much harmony, as silence on your part accompanying the cacophonous babble of the world&#8217;s peoples as they argue over the ownership and direction of your country.</p>
<p>The strongest voice will out though, and will come to control the state. I know it will not be the too too tolerant English, the question then, is will it be us, or will it be Osama&#8217;s buddies? Which do you prefer David?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to the reason for your disapproval, too?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>TBF, I didn&#039;t not approve your comment (although I don&#039;t approve of it) out of censorship; just been busy entertaining my mixed-race nephew and niece on their holidays. I think you trump me for incoherence and self-contradiction! I&#039;d rather - like a Christian Englishman - live harmoniously with my neighbour, whatever their race or creed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TBF, I didn&#8217;t not approve your comment (although I don&#8217;t approve of it) out of censorship; just been busy entertaining my mixed-race nephew and niece on their holidays. I think you trump me for incoherence and self-contradiction! I&#8217;d rather &#8211; like a Christian Englishman &#8211; live harmoniously with my neighbour, whatever their race or creed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tory Black Fist</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1215</link>
		<dc:creator>Tory Black Fist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1215</guid>
		<description>My god, what an incoherent and self-contradictory mess you inclusive-English-exclusivists make of your politics.

The unease some English feel in Britain is down to their being dispossessed of what was (I admit) rightfully theirs - their homeland - by immigrant groups (including my own) imported by their government. Merely transferring government to a devolved (in both senses) England changes nothing, because the consciously English malcontents of the moment will continue to feel pressured and put-upon by the system you Witanagemotians say will replace Old Britannia: [an England which] &lt;i&gt;belongs to all the ethnic minorities that have made it their home, too&lt;/i&gt;... ie. to all the world.

(I am talking, of course, about the English malcontents who actually matter, the racialists and nationalists, not the westlothianquestiongrumblers).

Whether it is Britain or England which enjoys a renaissance after the coming inevitable racial-religious strife and economic crash, it will need to be a self-conscious &lt;i&gt;people&lt;/i&gt; with a will to power who take the reins. You, however, insist on treating our problem by applying a greater concentration of the ethnic division which caused our it in the first place! But what wouldn&#039;t cure Old Britain will not cure Old England either. 

You&#039;re in for a rude awakening, happy boy! Islam is literally built to exploit that kind of weakness - so is the anti-racism meme which a certain desert tribe&#039;s sociologists sold to you white folks, and only you white folks, expressly to destroy the civilisation I too happen to have inherited. 

The post-collapse power vaccuum, then, will be filled either by the Ummah (Allah forbid!), or by the only other people in Britain with a will to survive, a functioning self/non-self awareness... and nowhere else to flee to: &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; Brotherhood - the Black British.

One day soon you&#039;ll have to make the choice Englishman: Black Britain or Islamic Britain? It is the price you will pay for not choosing your own kind. We will not make the same mistake, and I trust you will join us, and help preserve what is left of the civilization we both peoples have inherited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My god, what an incoherent and self-contradictory mess you inclusive-English-exclusivists make of your politics.</p>
<p>The unease some English feel in Britain is down to their being dispossessed of what was (I admit) rightfully theirs &#8211; their homeland &#8211; by immigrant groups (including my own) imported by their government. Merely transferring government to a devolved (in both senses) England changes nothing, because the consciously English malcontents of the moment will continue to feel pressured and put-upon by the system you Witanagemotians say will replace Old Britannia: [an England which] <i>belongs to all the ethnic minorities that have made it their home, too</i>&#8230; ie. to all the world.</p>
<p>(I am talking, of course, about the English malcontents who actually matter, the racialists and nationalists, not the westlothianquestiongrumblers).</p>
<p>Whether it is Britain or England which enjoys a renaissance after the coming inevitable racial-religious strife and economic crash, it will need to be a self-conscious <i>people</i> with a will to power who take the reins. You, however, insist on treating our problem by applying a greater concentration of the ethnic division which caused our it in the first place! But what wouldn&#8217;t cure Old Britain will not cure Old England either. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re in for a rude awakening, happy boy! Islam is literally built to exploit that kind of weakness &#8211; so is the anti-racism meme which a certain desert tribe&#8217;s sociologists sold to you white folks, and only you white folks, expressly to destroy the civilisation I too happen to have inherited. </p>
<p>The post-collapse power vaccuum, then, will be filled either by the Ummah (Allah forbid!), or by the only other people in Britain with a will to survive, a functioning self/non-self awareness&#8230; and nowhere else to flee to: <i>my</i> Brotherhood &#8211; the Black British.</p>
<p>One day soon you&#8217;ll have to make the choice Englishman: Black Britain or Islamic Britain? It is the price you will pay for not choosing your own kind. We will not make the same mistake, and I trust you will join us, and help preserve what is left of the civilization we both peoples have inherited.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-on-social-cohesion-promotes-ethnic-marginalisation-of-the-english/#comment-1196</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/?p=130#comment-1196</guid>
		<description>&#039;Will England still have to be called Britain out of respect for the British identities and sensibilities of minority-ethnic groups? Will English people still not be able to call their state by their own name, even when the geographical territory of that state is limited to England?&#039;

I think you are right about this. I don&#039;t think the left wing project of New Britain PLC would abate even if Scotland were to become independent. The left in England have a vision of a utopian multicultural Britain grounded in a relabelled/rebranded English culture. Any &#039;vision&#039; from the left (or right for that matter) should be treated with the greatest suspicion by ordinary people. The problem is that when Labour are thrown out at the general election what will we have instead? British nationalist Tories which hardly helps England. Both &#039;multicultural&#039; Britain AND imperialist Britain have their sticky hands around the throat of England. I know the anglophobic media makes it very difficult for organisations like the CEP to get their point across but really far too many English people seem to have the perspicacity of a sedated sheep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Will England still have to be called Britain out of respect for the British identities and sensibilities of minority-ethnic groups? Will English people still not be able to call their state by their own name, even when the geographical territory of that state is limited to England?&#8217;</p>
<p>I think you are right about this. I don&#8217;t think the left wing project of New Britain PLC would abate even if Scotland were to become independent. The left in England have a vision of a utopian multicultural Britain grounded in a relabelled/rebranded English culture. Any &#8216;vision&#8217; from the left (or right for that matter) should be treated with the greatest suspicion by ordinary people. The problem is that when Labour are thrown out at the general election what will we have instead? British nationalist Tories which hardly helps England. Both &#8216;multicultural&#8217; Britain AND imperialist Britain have their sticky hands around the throat of England. I know the anglophobic media makes it very difficult for organisations like the CEP to get their point across but really far too many English people seem to have the perspicacity of a sedated sheep.</p>
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