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	<title>Comments on: From a UK Of England and Semi-Autonomous Regions To a UK Of Autonomous Nations</title>
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	<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/</link>
	<description>Resisting the efforts to impose a unitary British value system and identity</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1823</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1823</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, RJ. I wrote the post some time ago, but the main point I was making is that English people have traditionally seen England and the British state as indivisible. The creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - as it was before Irish independence and partition - was on one level a means for England to absorb Ireland, Scotland and Wales into England politically (subordinating them effectively to English rule) without appearing to do so, as all the countries (including England) were all supposed to be equal partners in a unified kingdom. Hence, nationalists in the other nations have tended to see British rule and domination by England as one and the same thing, as you do also.

In the present, in the wake of devolution, there has been a subtle shift in the definition of Britishness and the way British identity is superimposed on to England. This plays on English people&#039;s traditional identification with Britain but is actually intended to replace an English-national identity with a British one. And, as I suggested in the post, this is designed to create a new sort of &#039;nation of Britain&#039;, divided up into regions, which nominally accommodates the national aspirations of the Scots, N. Irish and Welsh but effectively turns them and the whole of England into a series of &#039;British regions&#039;. This is, perhaps, the last gasp of a unitary English-British unionism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, RJ. I wrote the post some time ago, but the main point I was making is that English people have traditionally seen England and the British state as indivisible. The creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland &#8211; as it was before Irish independence and partition &#8211; was on one level a means for England to absorb Ireland, Scotland and Wales into England politically (subordinating them effectively to English rule) without appearing to do so, as all the countries (including England) were all supposed to be equal partners in a unified kingdom. Hence, nationalists in the other nations have tended to see British rule and domination by England as one and the same thing, as you do also.</p>
<p>In the present, in the wake of devolution, there has been a subtle shift in the definition of Britishness and the way British identity is superimposed on to England. This plays on English people&#8217;s traditional identification with Britain but is actually intended to replace an English-national identity with a British one. And, as I suggested in the post, this is designed to create a new sort of &#8216;nation of Britain&#8217;, divided up into regions, which nominally accommodates the national aspirations of the Scots, N. Irish and Welsh but effectively turns them and the whole of England into a series of &#8216;British regions&#8217;. This is, perhaps, the last gasp of a unitary English-British unionism.</p>
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		<title>By: RJ</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1820</link>
		<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1820</guid>
		<description>Im from the North of ireland 
and this Really didnt make much Sence
it just sounded like England want to be Called Britain, well since im a Republican i call England Britain anyway, if i thought that my home was a Region of England, id pick up arms and Shoot every British Government Official until i gained independence, i have Family who live in England and My Grandmother was Born in England in 1942 {shes dead now} so i dont have any bad fealings towards the English, but i really hate the way there Government try to Rule Us , when they know they cant i for 1 and millions more here, dont Reconise the So Called British Sovereignty over any of ireland. 
Us and the English would have a better relationship if it was a Personal Union instead of Political , because it just makes thing Hard for the Governments on Boths Sides of the Irish Sea we Are In the European Union, and Should be Getting on, instead of the other Island ruling Another Island of People who dont wish to be ruled..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im from the North of ireland<br />
and this Really didnt make much Sence<br />
it just sounded like England want to be Called Britain, well since im a Republican i call England Britain anyway, if i thought that my home was a Region of England, id pick up arms and Shoot every British Government Official until i gained independence, i have Family who live in England and My Grandmother was Born in England in 1942 {shes dead now} so i dont have any bad fealings towards the English, but i really hate the way there Government try to Rule Us , when they know they cant i for 1 and millions more here, dont Reconise the So Called British Sovereignty over any of ireland.<br />
Us and the English would have a better relationship if it was a Personal Union instead of Political , because it just makes thing Hard for the Governments on Boths Sides of the Irish Sea we Are In the European Union, and Should be Getting on, instead of the other Island ruling Another Island of People who dont wish to be ruled..</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1028</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1028</guid>
		<description>Tom, did you get beyond the second sentence? It&#039;s partly intended to be ironic: linking the current suppression of England as a distinct nation to English self-deprecation and reserve. I&#039;m actually really taking a poke at Britishness, and the engagement of some PC English people in Britishness: &#039;we can&#039;t go on about our Englishness, as we have to include everyone = Britishness&#039;.

What I really do believe is that the existence of a / the English nation as such is under threat; and until I start hearing the government and mainstream media talking about English matters &lt;i&gt;as&lt;/i&gt; English matters, and starting to discuss &lt;i&gt;English&lt;/i&gt; governance and identity, not just British, I&#039;ll continue with my PR, as you call it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, did you get beyond the second sentence? It&#8217;s partly intended to be ironic: linking the current suppression of England as a distinct nation to English self-deprecation and reserve. I&#8217;m actually really taking a poke at Britishness, and the engagement of some PC English people in Britishness: &#8216;we can&#8217;t go on about our Englishness, as we have to include everyone = Britishness&#8217;.</p>
<p>What I really do believe is that the existence of a / the English nation as such is under threat; and until I start hearing the government and mainstream media talking about English matters <i>as</i> English matters, and starting to discuss <i>English</i> governance and identity, not just British, I&#8217;ll continue with my PR, as you call it.</p>
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		<title>By: tom timpson</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>tom timpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>&quot;We English, for all our faults, are very polite and respectful of other nations’ sensitivities. So much so that we don’t even call our own country by its name so as to make sure that all who live here feel included and equal.&quot;

Such nonsense! First sentence...eh? Second sentence...eh? You really do believe your own PR, don&#039;t you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We English, for all our faults, are very polite and respectful of other nations’ sensitivities. So much so that we don’t even call our own country by its name so as to make sure that all who live here feel included and equal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Such nonsense! First sentence&#8230;eh? Second sentence&#8230;eh? You really do believe your own PR, don&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Clegg: No ambition for England, just like the other parties &#171; Britology Watch: Deconstructing &#8216;British Values&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Clegg: No ambition for England, just like the other parties &#171; Britology Watch: Deconstructing &#8216;British Values&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-713</guid>
		<description>[...] leader of the Liberal Democrats - or, as I like to call them, the English-UK Liberal Democrats (see From a UK Of England and Semi-Autonomous Regions To a UK Of Autonomous Nations) - Nick Clegg stated: &#8220;Today is about two things: ambition, and change. . . . Renewed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] leader of the Liberal Democrats &#8211; or, as I like to call them, the English-UK Liberal Democrats (see From a UK Of England and Semi-Autonomous Regions To a UK Of Autonomous Nations) &#8211; Nick Clegg stated: &#8220;Today is about two things: ambition, and change. . . . Renewed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Follon</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Follon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-629</guid>
		<description>David,

The full legal opinion can be found at the following URL -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacCormick_v._Lord_Advocate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>The full legal opinion can be found at the following URL -</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacCormick_v._Lord_Advocate" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacCormick_v._Lord_Advocate</a></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-628</guid>
		<description>Michael, are you saying that this legal opinion does find that the Great Britain parliament did inherit all the characteristics of the English parliament but none of the Scottish parliament? The part-sentence included at the end of the quote makes it unclear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, are you saying that this legal opinion does find that the Great Britain parliament did inherit all the characteristics of the English parliament but none of the Scottish parliament? The part-sentence included at the end of the quote makes it unclear.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Follon</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Follon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-620</guid>
		<description>Dave,

With regard to your comments (9 December 2007) in the last sentence of paragraph two, the following is an extract from a 1954 legal finding by Lord Cooper in the Scottish Court of Session -

&lt;i&gt;&#039;...I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to Parliament of England. That is not what was done...&#039;

Source: MacCormick v Lord Advocate 1954 (1953 SC 396)&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>With regard to your comments (9 December 2007) in the last sentence of paragraph two, the following is an extract from a 1954 legal finding by Lord Cooper in the Scottish Court of Session -</p>
<p><i>&#8216;&#8230;I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to Parliament of England. That is not what was done&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>Source: MacCormick v Lord Advocate 1954 (1953 SC 396)</i></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-618</guid>
		<description>Re Michael&#039;s comment, yes, that&#039;s the other option; just not much point calling that the UK, unless the Union concerned was just the &#039;personal union&#039; of a single monarch common to all four countries.

Re Chris&#039;s comment, yes, of course, Great Britain was / is the creation of both England and Scotland. But I think there has traditionally been a difference in the way Scotland and England viewed their relationship to the Union, with Scottish people making a clearer distinction between Scotland and Britain as a whole, while English people have tended to conflate England and Britain - hence, the traditional English habit of speech of referring to the UK as &#039;England&#039;. This reflects the fact, in my view, that Great Britain should more accurately be described as an incorporation of Scotland into the English state rather than a merger of equals forming something altogether new. 

Post-devolution, Scotland has begun to forge a political identity separate from that of Britain; but England is not being allowed the same freedom. What this means is that, more than ever perhaps, &#039;Britain&#039; becomes the form and name of English statehood. But then, if Britain is England, in political and constitutional terms, the whole thing can be stood on its head, and we can subversively start to describe the UK government and British national institutions as those of England.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Michael&#8217;s comment, yes, that&#8217;s the other option; just not much point calling that the UK, unless the Union concerned was just the &#8216;personal union&#8217; of a single monarch common to all four countries.</p>
<p>Re Chris&#8217;s comment, yes, of course, Great Britain was / is the creation of both England and Scotland. But I think there has traditionally been a difference in the way Scotland and England viewed their relationship to the Union, with Scottish people making a clearer distinction between Scotland and Britain as a whole, while English people have tended to conflate England and Britain &#8211; hence, the traditional English habit of speech of referring to the UK as &#8216;England&#8217;. This reflects the fact, in my view, that Great Britain should more accurately be described as an incorporation of Scotland into the English state rather than a merger of equals forming something altogether new. </p>
<p>Post-devolution, Scotland has begun to forge a political identity separate from that of Britain; but England is not being allowed the same freedom. What this means is that, more than ever perhaps, &#8216;Britain&#8217; becomes the form and name of English statehood. But then, if Britain is England, in political and constitutional terms, the whole thing can be stood on its head, and we can subversively start to describe the UK government and British national institutions as those of England.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Abbott</title>
		<link>http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2007/12/08/from-a-uk-of-england-and-semi-autonomous-regions-to-a-uk-of-autonomous-nations/#comment-608</guid>
		<description>I thought &quot;Britain&quot; was originally a creation of England AND Scotland?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought &#8220;Britain&#8221; was originally a creation of England AND Scotland?</p>
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